Re: [討論] 能量消耗/攝取假說

看板FITNESS (健身/體適能)作者dreambreaken (小滅滅)時間1年前 (2022/06/14 12:02)推噓3(3推 0噓 6→)

留言9則, 2人參與討論串4/12 (看更多)

※ 引述《risk ()》之銘言： : ※ 引述《dreambreaken (小滅滅)》之銘言： : : 傳統的算卡路里減肥方式可能是錯的 : 計算卡路里只是為了達到熱量赤字的方式之一 : 有在計算卡路里=/=有達到熱量赤字 : (我個人是沒有在計算卡路里的, 但我一定會看食品營養標示) : : https://tinyurl.com/3t5e7xsz : : 這是各國人均每天攝取卡路里的量 : : 其中美國攝取人將近3800大卡 : : 日本人攝取2800大卡 : : 站在能量攝取的角度 : : 美國人每天比日本人多1000大卡 : : 一年下來美國人應該要比日本人增加50公斤 : 請教您兩個問題, 不要回答中國就好 : 1. 移動人口: 到美國旅行的台灣人, 在美國攝入食物熱量算是哪個國家的? 美國 : 2. 移動食物: 居住在台灣的台灣人, 網購日本零食並攝入食物熱量算是哪個國家的? 如果個人網購沒有進海關統計算日本 : : 如果拿這理論來減肥 : : 看來是錯誤的 : 計算卡路里是方法, 熱量赤字減重是理論 : 方法不適合=/=理論錯誤 : 您說"歡迎提供正確方式跟數據" : 建議您用Energy metabolism關鍵字進行搜尋 : https://www.nature.com/subjects/energy-metabolism : Energy metabolism is the process of generating energy (ATP) from nutrients. : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5081410/ 1.introduction第二段 Obesity, as a disease of excessive fat deposition, is essentially a consequence of chronic energy imbalance with energy intake consistently exceeding expenditure, which then leads to the storage of surplus energy in the white adipose tissue. While the solution to obesity appears to be as simple as reducing calorie intake (e.g. avoid energy-dense food) and increasing energy expenditure (e.g. increase physical activity), the failure of decades of public health initiatives to remove the “obesogenic” environmental factors clearly indicates that obesity is a problem far more complex than the prevailing wisdom of “low willpower” 上面這段就是我的所有想法 : Analysis of energy metabolism in humans: A review of methodologies : Methodologies to assess energy intake and appetite-related parameters : 1. Food recall and food diary (本版的方式) : 2. Image-assisted dietary assessment (本版的方式) : 3. Food frequency questionnaire : 4. Observed intake in controlled environment : 5. Biomarkers of nutrient intake : 6. Mathematical modeling and intake-balance method : 7. Appetite measurement : Methodologies to assess energy expenditure : 1. Self-reporting and direct observation (本版的方式) : 2. Direct calorimetry : measures the actual heat production : 3. Indirect calorimetry : assesses energy expenditure by calculating the amount of energy released : when energy substrates are oxidized : 4. Doubly labeled water : 5. Non-calorimetric techniques (本版的方式) : 5.1 Physical activity log and kinematic measurements : 5.2 Heart rate and ventilation monitoring : 如同您引用Albert Einstein所說的 : "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." : 要證明energy balance實驗很簡單, 要花金錢時間而已測量方法就沒意思了其實就是要不要花錢而已實際上上一篇一堆論文已經測過各種模型overfitting後準確率低到可憐反正真理就是越辯越明我感謝上一篇幫我找論文驗證我的說法 : energy intake / calories in : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_energy : 1. Direct calorimetry of combustion : 實驗步驟範例 https://education.mrsec.wisc.edu/food-calorimetry/ : 2. The Atwater system : energy expenditure / calories out : https://www.energymetabolismlab.com/lab-services/calorimetry-room : Whole room calorimeters allow us to simulate the free-living environment : ("real-life") and measure energy expenditure (the number of calories you burn) : and substrate oxidation (whether calories you burn come from carbohydrates : and fat) continuously. : https://www.energymetabolismlab.com/lab-services/doubly-labeled-water-lab : allows investigators to measure the total daily energy expenditure of : their participants in a free living environment over a period of 1-2 weeks. 任何飲食的實驗基本上都很難在人體上實驗我其實也不信了如何找到幾百幾千人然後限制他們一天只能吃/不吃甚麼食物、禁食時間一堆根本無法準確掌握的變數真的有辦法做到這件事情的事情只有監獄而已 : 這實驗也蠻有趣的 : https://news.yahoo.com/metabolism-set-birth-one-lab-083017324.html : The infant chamber is meant to mimic the gold standard of measuring : metabolism in adults. Those metabolic chambers are about the size of a small : hotel room. Adult participants stay in the room for 24 hours, and scientists : are able to calculate precisely how many calories they burn over : that time period. : A baby's metabolism is calculated by taking precise measurements of : the amount of oxygen and carbon dioxide in the chamber. : 您說"如果靠熱量赤字減肥的方式是對的 : 為何一堆人想減肥但都瘦不下來？" : 因為想減肥=/=有達到熱量赤字 : 您說"我看完why we eat too much後我認為他說的是對的 : 重點不是不要吃 : 而是如何讓自己身體不想吃" : 為什麼要讓自己身體不想吃? 如果需要心理諮詢服務, 請打安心專線1925 飢餓感不等於身體需要熱量你只要一直吃精緻澱粉就會一直餓胰島素、飢餓、血糖那個科學已經證明了所有使用的藥基本也已經朝這方向在做我已經舉例子只要喝酒基本上人就會想吃東西書上的理論是導致發炎就會分泌飢餓素讓人去找食物如果吃炸物也是不相信的自己拿身體做a/b test就知道了我端午中午吃了兩個粽子還有一個甜湯跟閒湯熱量高於1000大卡傍晚五點又餓了但我不認為我身體需要這麼多能量 : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating : Eating is the ingestion of food, typically to provide : a heterotrophic organism with energy and to allow for growth. : Animals and other heterotrophs must eat in order to survive... : 您引用 https://www.thenewslens.com/article/156417 : 請您點閱參考資料第一項FDA NEWS RELEASE : Today, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved Wegovy (semaglutide) : injection (2.4 mg once weekly) for chronic weight management in adults : with obesity or overweight with at least one weight-related condition : (such as high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, or high cholesterol), : for use in addition to a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity. : 不能了解您為何會說"缺少的關鍵字:少吃、多動、熱量赤字" in addtition to指的是人們除了少吃、多動以外有個更有效的方法至於少吃、多動有沒有效你可以看上面你找的第一份代謝學的網頁 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 60.250.75.123 (臺灣) ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/FITNESS/M.1655179354.A.118.html

Re: [討論] 能量消耗/攝取 假說

Re: [討論] 能量消耗/攝取假說