PTT消費區 / E-appliance (家電)

Fw: [心得] NSF認證相關問題

看板E-appliance (家電)作者 (火頁火頁)時間8年前 (2017/12/07 22:53), 8年前編輯推噓3(3推 0噓 4→)
留言7則, 2人參與, 8年前最新討論串1/1
※ [本文轉錄自 DirectSales 看板 #1QA1TQtF ] 作者: d200190 (瞌睡熊) 看板: DirectSales 標題: Re: [問題] 如果找不到當初的安麗直銷商 時間: Thu Dec 7 00:14:12 2017 來喔，上原文 Dear NSF: Could you explain how this NSF certified mark should be looked like? Is there any official regulation for some specific product type? Or a authorized manufacturer could choose their own mark varying from a simple NSF to a circled NSF with certified standard? changing color from blue to black? I've seen marks with these two colors with the same "Independently Certified" around NSF circle, separated with or without two dots. Did they represent the same meaning? I am confused by a salesman form Amway claimed that eSpring water treatment system is the only system certified for the entire system(standard 42/53/55), rest of manufacturers certified merely for functioning compartments. Most importantly, he claimed that by whole system certification, they were authorized to bear different type of certified mark, which is distinguishable from other manufacturers. Is it true or false? if it's true, what does it look like? May I have a picture? ============================================================================ Hello XXX, There are certification marks that are used by all manufacturers who are certified to NSF International standards and certified by NSF International. There are color restrictions and size recommendations for the certification marks. The certification mark by itself does not represent different certification; but rather the list of standards that the product has been certified against as well as the list of contaminants it will reduce is a way to differentiate a product’s certification. In regard to what you stated below, here is our listings page where you can see which products are certified to which standards: http://info.nsf.org/Certified/DWTU/ There are various products that have certification to more than one standard (i.e., 42, 53, and 401). We verify what the manufacturer is claiming their product will reduce. If you forward me what the dealer is saying in an email, I can send to our quality team for their review. ============================================================================ Dear NSF: Thanks for replying. Here's his expression: eSpring system is the only product (more precisely, product line.) being certified for entire machine to standard 43/53/55/401/P477 rather than just functioning component. For example, some water purifier is certified to standard 53 only for filter part, but not for the entire machine as eSpring does. Since eSpring is certified for entire machine, the product line is authorized to bear unique NSF mark differing from other manufacturers. To be clear: 1.Is the NSF mark altered in any way between "whole machine" and "single component" so that I could tell the differences by taking one glance of the certified mark? Attached file 1 demonstrates what he called "unique certified mark for entire machine". I prefer he's bluffing. Is it legit to use TM? or R is preferred? https://imgur.com/FLHv9OJ.jpg
2. "whole machine" and "single component" Are they really certified and documented in different ways? Does it really matter if I sent the whole machine or component for certification? The salesman's expression sounds like their certification to standard 53 is way more better than other manufacturers' and documented in a unique way. I thought NSF testifies the water purifying components in the most realistic practice-run the whole machine, and testify the contaminants reduction, material safety and integrity. Am I correct? or NSF only testifies the component in some way isolated? 3.Just to be sure, in attached file 2, all these certified mark are legit, right? And they don't represent any standard or what they called "whole machine certification". The only information is that products with these marks are certified by NSF, and manufacturers are free to choose any one of them as label. Am I correct? https://imgur.com/Eaji0f7.jpg
=========================================================================== Hi XXX, There are component certifications that we use to verify the components in contact with drinking water are safe to use. These fall under standard 42 and/or 61. They would state as such “certified for material and structural integrity only” whereas the performance of a product is verified as a whole system is under 42, 53, 401, etc. The mark is the same with the exception of the box underneath has different text clarifying the product’s certification. The certification mark has a ® with it for all marks including the “ independently certified” version. If I can be of further assistance, please let me know. Thank you for your message, ============================================================================
推
12/05 08:58,
那不就代表可能有你不知道的技術，
12/05 08:58
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12/05 08:58,
可以用活性碳濾心過濾重金屬嗎？
12/05 08:58
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12/05 08:59,
那就請你提出證明
12/05 08:59
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12/05 09:00,
研究報告等第三方資料
12/05 09:00
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12/05 09:00,
不然都給你說就好了 我考試OGC4次
12/05 09:00
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12/05 09:01,
還100分勒
12/05 09:01
這個齁，NSF列表有寫益之源可以濾鉛和汞，我覺得這個就可以不用爭了。
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12/05 19:35,
全機認證有外面那圈 沒有全機認證
12/05 19:35
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12/05 19:35,
請問一下是不是認證不一樣? 是不是
12/05 19:35
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12/05 19:35,
標誌不同? 自己一開始就搞錯別人說
12/05 19:35
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12/05 19:36,
的話還在那邊查得很爽外加人身攻擊
12/05 19:36
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12/05 19:36,
補第一句 沒有全機認證就沒有那圈
12/05 19:36
好喔，我又寫了一封信去啊，而且還幫你翻中文。 Dear NSF: What does the circle "independently certified " represent? The salesman insists that the circle around stands for whole system certification. 標誌外面那一圈independently certified是甚麼意思? 直銷商堅持那是全機認證 才有的圈。 ======================================================================== It is an older certification mark that does not represent a different type of certification (whole system versus component). The text box underneath should explain what the certification represents. 那是舊版的認證標誌，不代表認證不同(全機vs零部件)，底下的文字方塊可以解釋代表 哪項認證。 ======================================================================== 真的hen~棒。
推
12/06 08:14,
我想此為直銷板，會因本身對直銷.
12/06 08:14
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12/06 08:14,
直銷商過往經驗不佳而引起的吵架無
12/06 08:14
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12/06 08:14,
法避免，會說不買直銷產品也難免有
12/06 08:14
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12/06 08:14,
個人因素。我針對個人的言論探討，
12/06 08:14
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12/06 08:14,
請問原po d大詢問NSF官方全機認證
12/06 08:14
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12/06 08:14,
的信件內容為何？我轉錄給台灣安麗
12/06 08:14
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12/06 08:14,
公司請他們說明。因為全機認證.零
12/06 08:14
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12/06 08:14,
件認證官網上都有說明，且其他品牌
12/06 08:14
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12/06 08:14,
也有出現此標榜。排除由直銷商誤傳
12/06 08:14
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12/06 08:14,
，另外若有質疑台灣安麗官方文宣不
12/06 08:14
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12/06 08:14,
符合美國安麗的項目也可提出。
12/06 08:14
我是想說這張圖https://imgur.com/BVDsXQ2.jpg
我們常見到淨水器宣稱取得NSF認證，但在NSF的認證中，其實分為「全機」與「零件」認 證。 這兩者最大的區別，在於獲得NSF的「零件」，僅能代表該零件(濾心)所使用的材質 ，符合NSF的標準， 但卻無法代表該零件安裝於機體後的安全性，或者能有效濾除水中的 汙染物。僅有獲得NSF全機認證的淨水器，才能同時符合材料安全、結構完整及有效濾除 三大要件，確保顧客所飲用的水是純淨且安全無虞。 根據NSF官方的信，只要有效能相關的認證，比如說53裡面可以濾掉幾項，就是整個系統 下去驗，所以基本上53就一定是驗全機。 NSF的懶人包說明42跟53https://goo.gl/bppGRH 這也跟信件裡吻合，如果只驗零件的部分是歸在42或61底下，但是42也有效能的部分是 驗全機。 所以會分全機vs零件的，只有42，但是中文安麗官網不寫清楚，會讓消費者以為所有NSF 認證都有分全機vs零件。尤其是濾心，會有人拿整個濾水器的心臟只驗42零件不驗效能的 嗎? 真的有的話那這廠商是棒槌啊，所以我又合理假設這段描述是針對那些只要驗42零件 就可以拿NSF標誌出來騙的不肖廠商。但是消費者不會去研究這些眉角啊，又要被你們鋪 天蓋地洗全機五項，那不就是營造一種"只有我家驗全機好棒棒"的氛圍，你要說他違法也 沒有阿都是事實啊，只是換個說法讓你觀感不同啊。這，就是大家最討厭的直銷話術，一 般人不研究一下真的很容易被拐，美國官方網站就沒有搞這麼多花樣，再加一堆直銷商的 "個人行為"，更讓我覺得在台灣直銷會臭真的是活該夕鶴。 啊對了，NSF標誌的那個TM可以問一下啦，NSF官方說法是用®。 我戰的內容其實跟安麗官方也沒甚麼關係啊，都是在戰底下直銷商那些莫名其妙的"個人" 說詞啊，只是個體戶被戳就會氣噗噗覺得我在戳安麗官方。這種東西寄給官方有甚麼用? 難道官方還能把護航大將軍趕出安麗? --------------------------------------------------------- 很感謝D200190大大願意借我轉 這篇也搓破某直銷"全機"認證的話術 更加證明RO是目前最乾淨的水 希望大家能買到CP值最高的電器用品 以上 祝各位 健康快樂 -- ※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 1.169.200.220 ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/DirectSales/M.1512576858.A.DCF.html
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12/07 00:29, 8年前 , 1F
安麗直銷水凖，上線怎麼教下線就怎
12/07 00:29, 1F
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12/07 00:29, 8年前 , 2F
麼說。這叫 單純聽話照做
12/07 00:29, 2F
推
12/07 00:30, 8年前 , 3F
佩服 原來只要有52=全機 長知識了
12/07 00:30, 3F
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12/07 00:30, 8年前 , 4F
更正 53
12/07 00:30, 4F
推
12/07 00:31, 8年前 , 5F
有求證給推
12/07 00:31, 5F
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12/07 00:54, 8年前 , 6F
請問 文章可以借我轉嗎?我忙完再轉
12/07 00:54, 6F
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12/07 00:58, 8年前 , 7F
OK
12/07 00:58, 7F
推
12/07 07:59, 8年前 , 8F
53好奇問一下，你知道53總共驗了幾
12/07 07:59, 8F
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12/07 07:59, 8年前 , 9F
種嗎？過3種的53能不能貼？
12/07 07:59, 9F
推
12/07 08:52, 8年前 , 10F
順便補充。nsf55 紫外線燈管。有2
12/07 08:52, 10F
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12/07 08:52, 8年前 , 11F
個等級。A-40mj/cm2. B-16mj/cm2.
12/07 08:52, 11F
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12/07 08:52, 8年前 , 12F
安麗的屬於b級。
12/07 08:52, 12F
推
12/07 09:23, 8年前 , 13F
關於這點，益之源紫外線燈管其實是
12/07 09:23, 13F
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12/07 09:23, 8年前 , 14F
80millijoules 是A類的兩倍
12/07 09:23, 14F
還有 201 則推文
還有 2 段內文
推
12/07 17:10, 8年前 , 216F
你不會寫？
12/07 17:10, 216F
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12/07 17:14, 8年前 , 217F
不好意思，小弟不是直銷商 更沒有
12/07 17:14, 217F
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12/07 17:15, 8年前 , 218F
貴公司產品的專業知識 更沒有權利
12/07 17:15, 218F
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12/07 17:15, 8年前 , 219F
去推銷那個超棒的益之源淨水器
12/07 17:15, 219F
推
12/07 17:25, 8年前 , 220F
可是 這干直銷版什麼事情？
12/07 17:25, 220F
推
12/07 17:32, 8年前 , 221F
你不是一直說國人缺很大 什麼都缺
12/07 17:32, 221F
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12/07 17:32, 8年前 , 222F
你不是在經營助人的事業 怎麼會沒關
12/07 17:32, 222F
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12/07 17:34, 8年前 , 223F
你們一直覺得益之源超好的 如果
12/07 17:34, 223F
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12/07 17:34, 8年前 , 224F
小英也認同 那麼就不需要你一直說了
12/07 17:34, 224F
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12/07 17:36, 8年前 , 225F
你說國人缺乏微量元素，是缺多少？
12/07 17:36, 225F
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12/07 17:36, 8年前 , 226F
人家原PO都會拿數據來，你都沒有
12/07 17:36, 226F
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12/07 17:37, 8年前 , 227F
好吧，就如你說的缺很大 那麼喝了
12/07 17:37, 227F
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12/07 17:37, 8年前 , 228F
益之源神水就不缺了嗎？
12/07 17:37, 228F
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12/07 17:58, 8年前 , 229F
水不是礦物質的主要來源，喝水作用
12/07 17:58, 229F
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12/07 17:58, 8年前 , 230F
也不是補礦物質，自來水你要喝到肚
12/07 17:58, 230F
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12/07 17:58, 8年前 , 231F
子撐破才有辦法比的上100cc的牛奶，
12/07 17:58, 231F
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12/07 17:58, 8年前 , 232F
我們只能說來源多一個是一個， 但這
12/07 17:58, 232F
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12/07 17:59, 8年前 , 233F
不應該是比較淨水器的主力戰場，水
12/07 17:59, 233F
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12/07 17:59, 8年前 , 234F
乾淨就好
12/07 17:59, 234F
推
12/07 18:22, 8年前 , 235F
我沒有Po缺多少鈣啊？
12/07 18:22, 235F
推
12/07 18:24, 8年前 , 236F
水當然不是，蔬果才是，當然蔬果等
12/07 18:24, 236F
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12/07 18:24, 8年前 , 237F
食物都吃不夠，又再少一個來源是CP
12/07 18:24, 237F
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12/07 18:24, 8年前 , 238F
值很高的建議？
12/07 18:24, 238F
推
12/07 20:16, 8年前 , 239F
哈哈哈哈哈，花的那個錢還有鈣占比
12/07 20:16, 239F
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12/07 20:17, 8年前 , 240F
你真的懂CP值嗎? 我早說過，大家都
12/07 20:17, 240F
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12/07 20:17, 8年前 , 241F
受過業務技巧的洗禮，不能比的東西
12/07 20:17, 241F
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12/07 20:18, 8年前 , 242F
不要在那邊想靠話是去硬比，這裡不
12/07 20:18, 242F
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12/07 20:19, 8年前 , 243F
試賣你家東西的銷售點，不需要這樣
12/07 20:19, 243F
推
12/07 21:26, 8年前 , 244F
事實就是如此。不然你來回答或是你
12/07 21:26, 244F
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12/07 21:26, 8年前 , 245F
自己有益之源自行用TDS棒測試前後差
12/07 21:26, 245F
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12/07 21:26, 8年前 , 246F
別。
12/07 21:26, 246F
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc) ※ 轉錄者: gigi030507 (36.239.105.87), 12/07/2017 22:53:19 ※ 編輯: gigi030507 (36.239.105.87), 12/07/2017 22:55:53
推
12/07 23:22, 8年前 , 247F
直銷你跟他耗下去就輸了
12/07 23:22, 247F
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12/07 23:22, 8年前 , 248F
無視他們生活才能好好過，一群瘋子
12/07 23:22, 248F
對不起 因為我也是QQ 其實我只是想讓大家看笑話XDDDDDD ※ 編輯: gigi030507 (36.239.105.87), 12/07/2017 23:26:12
推
12/08 10:18, 8年前 , 249F
做直銷作到走火入魔的人，往往忽略掉一般消費者的觀點
12/08 10:18, 249F
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12/08 10:20, 8年前 , 250F
1.價錢2.功能3.附加價值，1比別人貴上一截2沒比別人好3對消
12/08 10:20, 250F
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12/08 10:23, 8年前 , 251F
費者來說沒有什麼必要性，卻要拿來當主要賣點強推，簡單的說
12/08 10:23, 251F
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12/08 10:25, 8年前 , 252F
就像賣冰箱送除臭功能，然後這冰箱比人家貴5成，耗電比別家
12/08 10:25, 252F
推
12/08 10:27, 8年前 , 253F
高一大截，然後產品業務只會推薦說這除臭功能超重要多超值
12/08 10:27, 253F
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